Amish

James: Princess Diana’s death?

Raymond: No, nothing, nothing.

James: The Olympics?

Raymond: Nope.

James: 9/11?

Raymond: 9/11 I heard about. One the little rebellious things I’d done is I had went and bought a pocket radio with some earbuds and I was in a field driving a team of horses, raking hay, believe it or not and I heard about 9/11.

[musical interlude]

James Host: This is Raymond. I first met him years ago in Melbourne where I had just landed to begin my coffee career. At the time Raymond was working as a barista in Southern Melbourne. When I would speak with him, I remember thinking Raymond’s got a very distinctive American accent, but things are weird. Raymond wasn’t like other Americans I’d ever met. He doesn’t have a favorite sports team, doesn’t care about Fourth of July. Nothing.

Over time, I actually got to know Raymond. We actually lived together in Melbourne at one point and I always wanted to ask him about his past bit it just never felt right. A few years later, I tell Raymond I’m making this podcast, and we both know that this would be an opportunity to explore his childhood. Raymond has never told his full story to anybody before and so I book a flight to Colorado.

[Colorado flight- captain speaking]

James Host: Where Raymond was working as a barista in Eagle, a quiet mountain town. Raymondo!

[Filter Stories melody]

I’m James Harper, and this is Filter Stories. The untold stories hidden in your cup of coffee.

[Keyboard tapping sounds]

James: What are you typing in?

Raymond: The name of the song is called Das Loblied.

James: What does that mean?

Raymond: It is defined as a song of praise.

James: Let’s listen to it.

[song plays while Raymond sings]

James Host: Raymond is singing a song from his Amish childhood and a window into his past slowly cracks open. Raymond was born into an Amish family in Pennsylvania, the eldest of 10 kids. The Amish are a group of Christians who interpret the Bible to mean they should live a life like Jesus — a life of humility and community. What that means in practice, for example, is that they do not use electricity or cars.

Singing is one of the few ways the Amish can express themselves musically. During church they sing simple melodies, like the one Raymond is singing right now, everybody singing the same notes. So, how did an Amish kid working on a farm end up on the opposite side of the world working as a barista in Melbourne? At one point Raymond drops a clue.

Raymond: I grew up drinking coffee.

James: So, the Amish drinks coffee

Raymond: Oh, yeah. Oh absolutely. How do you think I got up all those early mornings. Certainly, terrible coffee but with enough sugar and milk, it still has requisite caffeine content to get up and go milk the cows.

The Amish tend to eat what they can grow in the soil of their own farms, but coffee is an exception. We will return to coffee and how Raymond ended up as a barista in Melbourne but first to get to that answer, we need to explore a deeper story.

Raymond: I felt trapped. I felt trapped at a very young age and I guess I was. It’s pretty hard for a 5 year old to leave their family.]

James Host: Raymond’s Amish community was trying to protect itself from outside influences that might corrode their sense of community. As part of this, they do not watch television or read English newspapers. Instead, much of their understanding of the world comes from the bible.

James: What did you know about the world? What did you think was beyond the farm?

Raymond: I remember a lot of that being shaped by things that I read in the house. We had a library that contained sort of a strange assortment of books really. I remember National Geographic’s being around. I remember an issue on Mars. There is no science taught in schools so when I see these things, this is fresh, this is news to me at this point. Mars? What and then you see the whole solar system and you’re like what, what is this?

James: Really. And so, what was school like for you?

Raymond: It was an Amish parochial school. Think “Little House on the Prairie,” a simple rectangular schoolhouse with a blackboard taking up the whole front of the room. The goal is not to learn and to open your mind and to become a scientist or an engineer. It is to become a good member of an Amish community. It’s not to learn, it really isn’t, and I love to learn so it wasn’t a good place for me. I think I read in the National Geographic, learned about the molten core of the earth and I brought this up with dad. I said do you know the Earth has a molten core. And he goes ‘yea, I think that’s hell’ and I took a couple seconds, ‘…really?’ ‘Yea, that’s right. I think that’s where hell is’ and so I went back and hit the books and came back with one for him. I was like ‘Dad, there are multiple planets with molten cores. Does that mean there are multiple hells?’ And he goes ‘don’t think too much son. Itwill get you in trouble’.

James: It must feel so isolating to be learning so much and no one is on the same page as me.

Raymond: I just wanted to leave because I wanted to learn something. I wanted to think. I just felt trapped. I just wanted to get out.

[Amish singing resumes]

James Host: You may have heard of Rumspringa. This is when adolescents in some Amish communities have an opportunity to experience the outside world. If Raymond were in a more liberal Amish community, this may have been his window to leave. But unfortunately, this didn’t apply to Raymond.

Raymond: We were old order Amish and they were still quite strict. I didn’t know anyone could leave. When I left I didn’t know anyone else who had left ever, no.

James Host: Raymond’s now a young kid and has to figure out how to leave his community to get an education. He’s not going to get any help and all he knows — his entire world — are the Amish farms in his community and as Raymond is figuring out how to escape, his Amish life goes on.

James: You had long hair?

Raymond: I had long hair, believe it or not. Bowl cut, very fashionable.

[both laugh]

Terrible, absolutely terrible.Oh, yeah. I tried to hide it at any cost. Put it up under a hat, do something with it, hated it but can’t change it because those are the rules.

James Host: And unfortunately, Raymond wasn’t just trying to escape to get a decent education. He had other reasons to escape.

Raymond: Dad’s a fucking terror, for sure.

James: In terms of the parenting style, I think the impression was quite a disciplinarian household.

Raymond: Very much so.

James: To what extent did you receive it more than others?

Raymond: I would say I probably got it more than any of my brothers and sisters actually.

James: So, what’s the metal pipe story?

Raymond: Oh, it’s actually something Simon brought up. It’s something that I had forgotten about but that was last week. I was talking to him and he was like yeah, I remember dad chasing you through the barn with a metal pipe and I sat there, and I thought, and I was like, ‘shit he did do that, didn’t he?’ Dad was really even keel but there was a line you could cross and if you crossed that line, you better watch out.

James: Do you have a story related to your mother that kind of shows the kind of woman she was.

Raymond: I love my mom always very quiet, very obedient, very submissive. Dad would make it obvious that he was in charge and her opinion does not count. That’s her existence. That is her existence and unfortunately that is a lot of Amish women’s existence. I honestly don’t know if this is true for all Amish families but in my family there was never any display of emotion. Like I said earlier I don’t remember my mom and dad ever telling me that they loved me once. Of course, they did but they never told me that. Doesn’t it need to be said, like really. No show of emotion really other than anger and I remember being spanked by my mom and my mom clearly wasn’t liking it. My mom hated it. She would cry. I remember my mom crying while she spanked me. I did not understand what was going on. I was like why is mom crying. I don’t know and I also remember feeling… Okay so, for instance one of the members of our church died and we had a funeral. I was six, seven. I was really young. This is one of my first memories, but I was having a difficult time dealing with it of course and I was a little kid dealing with all these emotions that I didn’t know how to deal with, and I was just crying and crying and crying and mom’s response was literally to spank me. I was crying because I was visualizing mom dying because I was like well wait does this happen to everybody. And it was not my fault. It was a crying kid but my God, that was what I was crying about. She didn’t ask. We didn’t talk about it. It wasn’t something that was discussed, it as all just pushed under the rug.

James Host: As a young kid in Pennsylvania the outside world begins to creep into Raymond’s life.

Raymond: Where we were in Pennsylvania, it was getting crowded. There were Mennonites, there were different I guess versions of Amish people. There were people that weren’t Amish.

James Host: When Raymond is 13, his entire family moves from Pennsylvania to the Midwest. Corn country, Indiana.

James: What do you remember about the journey?

Raymond: I remember it being really long. I’ve never travelled that far before in my life and it seemed like it was taking forever. Once we got to the part that really sucked, we stopped and there we stayed.

James: Why did you guys move to Indiana?

Raymond: The only explanation I really got, I have asked dad this question was we did it for you and he saw that I was, I guess being observant and I was learning from the world around me. He was isolating me. He didn’t want me to get away.

James Host: Soon after Raymond gets to Indiana, he stops going to school. The Amish stop school at grade 8. So, Raymond begins to work full-time on the farm.

Raymond: Man, I was pretty all consumed with getting out and living a different life and just dreaming about it, thinking about it, trying to figure out how to do it. How is this going to happen.

James Host: And while he’s figuring it out, every other Sunday, Raymond is attending church.

James: And the guy preaching out front, who is this guy, the minister? What kind of ceremony does he deliver?

Raymond: Oh man, I have to admit, I may have gone to thousands of church services, but I don’t know if I ever listened. There it is. [both laugh]

James: Do you remember what you are doing instead, what you were thinking about?

Raymond: Not being there. Going fishing, going hunting, doing anything other than that.

James: So, what did you do to enjoy yourself?

Raymond: Probably fishing. Yea, we had a local pond.

James Host: After a while Raymond gets bored of the local pond so he goes to the neighbor’s house to fish in their pond.

Sean: He was actually, just came through the woods and saw that we had a fishpond.

James Host: This is Sean.

Sean: And he knocked on the door one afternoon and…

Raymond: I just knocked on the door and said hey can I fish in your pond? I want to go fishing in it.

Sean: And we told him that he could.

Raymond: And he’s like oh yes, sure go ahead.

James: What was your first impression? What was he wearing when he knocked on the door?

Sean: Typical Amish. They kind of bowl cut their hair, little straw hat, seemed like a very nice boy and he got to be very regular there.

James Host: Around this time Raymond is not in school anymore and the family needs money.

James: Did your dad suggest that you go to work on someone else’s farm?

Raymond: Yeah. It wasn’t a farm. He heard that somebody needed some help at their place, so I got volunteered to go.

James Host: To be clear, this man is not Sean, the neighbor who has the pond. This is a different neighbor completely.

Raymond: And, at this point I am 14/15 and at some point I sort of figured out that things were a little weird. Something was happening. I didn’t quite understand what was going on. Suddenly this guy is making deals with me like if you take your shirt off then I’ll give you this CD or something like that. So, this guy got me a CD player. So, thinking back on this, this is manipulation. And, at this point the most important thing in my life, well to me is to get away. I want to get away, I want to get away, I want to get away. So, I grab at anything that I can to get away from the farm, to get out of the house. So, that’s how he traps me. So, this guy provides me an income where I can kind of go buy stuff but it’s a control mechanism. So, then it just progresses and progresses, and I didn’t know what was going on, I didn’t, this guy doing this to me made no sense.

James: He had you that hooked?

Raymond: Yes, he did. Yes, he did, hook, line and sinker. It was the only escape. Made the deal with the devil.

[Amish singing starts]

James Host: For the record, Raymond treats these episodes as sexual abuse by a pedophile.

And while this is going on Raymond begins to explore popular music.

Raymond: I distinctly remember the first time that I heard music that really spoke to me. It happened to be the Real Slim Shady. It’s like it happened yesterday. I was in the house, somebody pulled up, he opened his door

[Song starts]

“May I have your attention please.

Will the Real Slim Shady please stand up.”

Raymond: And I just hear this boom, boom, boom something that I’d never heard before. What is this?

“We’re going to have a problem here.

You all act like you never seen a white person before

Jaws all on the floor like Pam like Tommy just burst in the door

And started…”

James: And where did you find the CDs? You were living full time on the farm.

Raymond: Well, that was one of the CDs that the abuser bought.

[Song continues]

“He didn’t just say what I think he did, did he?”

And Dr. Dre said…”

Raymond: And that’s probably the reason that I related to Eminem was just that he deals with a lot of hurt and a lot of painful shit. It was sort of my first musical introduction to just how fucked life can be sometimes.

[Song continues]

“… ’cause I’m only givin’ you

Things you joke about with your friends inside your livin’ room

The only difference is I got the balls to say it in front of you all

And I don’t gotta be false or sugarcoat it at all

I just get on the mic and spit it

And whether…”

James Host: Raymond is now spending more and more time at Sean’s pond.

James: Describe what the pond looked like?

Sean: The pond? Was a nice, stocked fishpond.

James: How often would he come over?

Sean: When he first came it was in the fall and he came maybe once a week until it got cold and we didn’t see him much them over the winter and then the next fall and spring and summer it was almost every day.

James: And what kind of conversations would you have?

Sean: Not too much in regard to the Amish community. He had a lot of questions about us and I could tell that he was very interested in an education.

James: What happened after that?

Raymond: I continue fishing in the pond for quite a while. I think, at one point I suppose he asked me if I was happy being Amish or something like that. I do remember that sort of question coming up and I opened up to him and made it clear that I was absolutely not happy being Amish, but it was fairly soon when he actually came down and said if you really want to leave that badly we have an extra room in the house, and you can move in.

Sean: When he started laying more hints about wanting to go to school and how he might do that I had said at some point that I would be willing to try to help him do that and in my mind I was thinking helping him go to school or find out information and what-not. I think in his eyes he took that, that that was a place for him to move and live. I really had never agreed to that. I felt sorry for him, but I thought legally there was no way that I could take him, and I already had four children at the time and didn’t really want another child or another expense and I worked two jobs and I work with the kids. I was an elected official. it was a very, very busy, busy life and a lot of stress and a lot of things to deal with.

James: How did you feel when he said that?

Raymond: I was, that’s what I had been waiting for all my life was a chance to get out. I was stoked. I was going to leave. I’m not sure if I confirmed with him at that point but very quickly I went home and I remember the first thing I told my dad was I’m going to high school just sort of abruptly and his answer was you can’t live here and go to high school and I said great, I won’t. He was like well, what do you mean? I’m going to live at Sean’s, and he goes no you’re not and thus began the standoff. Yeah, I am. No, you’re not. Yeah I am. You can’t do that. Yeah I can, watch me. I guess that sort of precipitated a chain of events. I remember it being pretty tumultuous for the next couple days.

Sean: But one afternoon I was home from work. I remember the day and it was pouring down rain and my phone rings and I answer the phone and it was him and he was kind of frantic and he said can you come down here right now? Can you come right away? And I say it’s pouring down rain, I say what do you need? What’s going on? He goes just please can you come down here and almost in tears when he sensed that maybe I wasn’t going to 21:20

Sean: But one afternoon I was home from work. I remember the day and it was pouring down rain and my phone rings and I answer the phone and it was him and he was kind of frantic and he said can you come down here right now? Can you come right away? And I say it’s pouring down rain, I say what do you need? What’s going on? He goes just please can you come down here and almost in tears when he sensed that was maybe not going to come down there and I realized that it was an urgency. So, I said okay, I’ll be down and so I drove down there which was just down the road. It was not very far from where we lived. I started to get out of the car and his dad met me in the driveway and didn’t want me to come in the house, but he asked if he could sit in the car and talk to me. Well, I come to find out he and his dad had had a fight and he, I think threatened his dad that he was going to move out and move in with us and anyway I had a long conversation with his dad and his dad told me at that point that he was a very big discipline problem in their family and I think, in my mind I’m thinking this is a really frustrated kid. He was really frustrated with this situation and I was kind of surprised that his dad even opened up to me on this because I’m thinking okay, where is this going? When we got done he said I would like for you to come back sometime and talk to Raymond’s grandparents and his mother. So, I say well yes, I can do that.

Raymond: You know this was all super tumultuous all of a sudden and suddenly the whole community got involved. We had a neighbor who was the head honcho of the church and suddenly his buggy is coming in the driveway and I guess my reaction to that, I just bolted. [Laughter]. Yea, I bolted. I bolted into the woods behind the house. I climbed up a tree where I knew nobody could find me and I just watched. I remember staying up in the tree for quite a period of time and then when they left I went back.

Sean: They called me at some point to come and meet them which, when I went there Raymond was nowhere around.

Raymond: And so, he pulls in and this is all such a big event because Raymond’s going to leave.

Sean: When I went in, his mom and dad were there, grandmother and grandfather and the preacher of their church. So, anyway when I got there I walk in and they are all kind of sitting in like a half circle and they have an office chair on wheels sitting in the middle. So, when I walk in and I see that I am a little bit offended by that, so I politely said I am not sitting here. I am not on trial, I am not going to sit in this chair, and they were very apologetic, we didn’t mean anything by that, but I rolled the chair over next to the grandfather and sat down and I said, now I will sit here and answer your questions. The women did not say much of anything in this meeting. The men did all the talking, the men asked all the questions and they were asking me questions about as quick as I could answer them and the questions were did I allow my kids to date, at what age did I allow them to date. Were my children allowed to be sexually active and if so at what age and a lot of very personal questions and at this point I had never had a discussion with anybody about Raymond living with us. That had never come out of my mouth, but I could just tell by this conversation that that is where they were going. They were almost interviewing me for the job. This drill of questions went for a long period of time and finally the grandfather hadn’t said anything throughout this whole conversation. He stands up and says Raymond will never know if he wants to be Amish until he tries something else and that’s where we left it. So, basically I said at that point, well, if he wants to try it, we can give it a try. We’ll give it 60 days, 90 days. He may come and not like it, want to come home and they verbally agreed to do that.

James: You didn’t go into it thinking you were going to be taking Raymond. What changed?

Sean: I think that it was the simple fact that he had become more and more part of the family. He is there all the time anyway. If we were gone at that time he would show up, walk in the house, he’d be sitting in the chair watching TV drinking a soda. He was at home there and had spent enough time there that he was very comfortable, and we were okay with that.

James: You must have been pinching yourself at one point being like how have I got myself in this situation.

Sean: Honestly, I didn’t. At that point I was on the child protection board and taking other foster children in. We had drug babies with mothers that were in prison. We had teenagers that had lots of different issues and most of those were short term, where they were more in than out. It was a normal day for us. They evidently later then had a conversation with Raymond and Raymond contacted me a few days later and said on such and such date you can come and get me. So, on that day I drive there, pull in the driveway and he has got his Amish hat and his Amish clothes, and he looks so small and so insignificant sitting on the porch with his feet dangling. He was small enough that his feet didn’t even touch the ground. So, he was just sitting there swinging his feet and he looked so innocent. He just had that little shoebox and I that’s everything he owns is in that little shoebox.

Raymond: And that’s kind of how I left. I guess I had the clothes on my back, a couple possessions.

Sean: I pull in, he picks up the box, walks to the van that I am driving and gets in which I thought was kind of strange because there wasn’t anybody to see him off, there wasn’t anybody there to try to talk him out of going. About the time I put the vehicle in reverse, I start backing out his mom steps out on the porch and just waves, kind of smiled, turned around and went back in like no big deal, like another day. We left and drove home and the first thing he said is well, we’re going to need to get some clothes probably and he said I would really like to get my hair cut. So, we drove to the local mall which is another story because he had all his hair tucked up in this cap. he sat in this chair and she pulled the cap off, the hair fell out of the hat and it was thick and heavy, so her mouth just fell open. I think she looked at me for an explanation and I just smiled, I didn’t say anything. So, she was very confused at that point. Once he got his hair cut he looked very, very different. He looked like any other kid.

Raymond: He had a computer. I had never interacted with a computer in any way shape or form. I distinctly remember putting my hand on the mouse and like this moves the thing on this what? Completely alien.

Sean: It was a few months then before he started school but that was his goal. He wanted to go to high school. So, I contacted the father about getting his social security number, about getting his birth certificate and all that because we were going to have to do some kind of a guardianship. His dad agreed to give me that stuff and told me when I could go down. So, I go down. When I got there, it was almost a complete change of heart for his dad. His dad was kind of bitter, kind of agitated. He said I can’t do anything to help him or encourage him not to be Amish. I can’t even give him a bag of potatoes Nd he was telling me that he felt like Raymond was going to go to hell and I sensed that he was basically insinuating that I was on a road to hell as well and so, I ask him. I said do you honestly believe because I don’t wear black wool and a straw hat and milk cows that I am going to hell? He just looked at me in the eyes and said yes I do, and I said well, I think this conversation is over because I am going to say something I regret and we’d better just part ways while we’re still friends.

Raymond: We went to visit Sean’s mom Gail. Gail was an incredibly loving mom. I show up, this is maybe a week or so after I leave but she just greeted me with a hug and said welcome to the family and expressive, open and I was floored. Like whoa, what is this expression of emotion? Why are you touching me? But, it felt great. it was wonderful. I suddenly felt more at home there in a place that I had never been that I ever felt with my family before for the previous 16 years.

James: What did you think about Raymond’s potential academically at this point?

Sean: Well, I could tell he was very intelligent. I wasn’t sure how quick he would latch on to high school, but he latched onto it very quickly. He was in National honors society. He was a straight A student. He found it very easy. He was accepted very quickly in the high school and was very popular and did well.

James: And he lived with you up until his early twenties? He would have been with you for maybe up to eight years.

Sean: Yes. Yes.

James: What do you say to the people who might have the opportunity to take in children that are nervous?

Sean: I would encourage people that have a desire to help children to be involved with foster parenting. There is such a need there. I think you don’t always see the rewards when you deal with children. A lot of the foster children that we had have come and gone and we’ve never seen them again but when you are able to have some that you could see it with, that’s the only payday that you get is that you see that they are well adjusted, that they are happy.

James Host: So, let’s get back to the question we started the story with. How does Raymond end up as barista in Melbourne?

Well, Raymond would go on to get full scholarships at prestigious universities and he begin a Masters in an atmospheric chemistry lab. He’s now in his mid-20s.

Raymond: I just remember sitting in front of the computer putting together the presentation that I needed to defend to earn my master’s and I just couldn’t. I just looked at the screen and the only thing I could think is I don’t give a damn. I don’t give a damn. I can’t do this, I can’t do this, I can’t do this.

James Host: Raymond was realizing what it means to be a professional research scientist. Lots of time sitting behind a computer.

Raymond: Sitting in front of a computer crunching the data was something that I just learned that wasn’t for me. I wasn’t passionate about it. I was passionate about collecting good data.

James Host: Raymond wanted to be out in the field, using his brain and his hands together.

James: To me as an outsider, the fact that you spent a lot of your childhood out in the woods, with nature. I mean that must, does that play a part?

Raymond: It probably does. It probably does.

James Host: After giving up on his Masters, Raymond goes travelling around the world. He ends up teaching English in Korea.

Raymond: I was living in Nowon in Northern Seoul. Did a bit of research online and found one of the specialty coffee roasters in Korea. I saw that they were doing a cupping and I just got hooked so fast. The story was interesting. I found people in the industry to be endlessly helpful and kind. I just really fell for specialty coffee. I did.

James Host: I know that Raymond loves specialty coffee because he can do science using his hands. There’s an incredible amount of science behind a cup of coffee and great baristas need to know all of it. I speak to Ash Unicomb, the manager of the cafe Raymond worked at back in Melbourne.

James: Do you recall any stories?

Ash: I remember coming to work early and he would set up this sort of almost lab and yea, he was basically doing an experiment on the back bench and he had these grids out and his charts and it was pretty fascinating actually.

James Host: On the level of coffee, Raymond’ story fascinates me. The reason Raymond is a barista is the same reason he couldn’t be Amish. He loves science.

[Amish singing]

And Raymond’s journey is still not finished. he hasn’t seen his parents in over a decade. He is in touch with some of his siblings and cousins but for the majority of his post Amish life, Raymond had little contact with his Amish family but that is all about to change.

Raymond: My motivations for going back are really to gain some sort of an understanding. A lot of these things I have sort of repressed, I suppose. I would like to get a good answer for a lot of things, for why treat kids like this? I would put it how I see it. The whole this is what you are doing, this is what school is for. Is that an injustice or is it not an injustice?

James: What do you want your father to be aware of in terms of abuse?

Raymond: I want him to know that it wasn’t okay to send a young teenager off to some creepy guys house. I want to see if he cares at all and if he thought about that and if not, why?.

James: What do you think he is going to say?

Raymond: I don’t know. I don’t know what he is going to say. I have never seen him show any emotion other than anger and indifference so I assume it will be one of those two.

James: How would you feel if he shows in his way that he does care?

Raymond: That would be great. That would be great. That would promote a lot of healing.

James Host: Raymond is now in his early 30s. He’s lived an equal amount of time outside Amish life as inside. Raymond tells me the timing is now right to begin closing these circles and I have booked another flight because I am going back to America to join him on the journey.

[Musical interlude]

Credits:

James Host: Thank you for listening to the final episode of Filter Stories in 2018. I really hope you enjoyed this mini-release as much as I enjoyed creating it. If you like Filter Stories and want more episodes in 2019, please spread the word, share it on Facebook, write an iTunes review and tell your friends. The more we can spread the word, the more episodes I can bring you.

The Filter Stories logo was created by Headquarters, a branding and packaging design team. Do you plan to start a podcast and need an eye-catching design? Check out Headquarters’ other work on their website www.headquarters.studio.

The episode was carefully mixed by Dom Edgley, a Berlin sound professional. If you need to perfect audio for your videos, visit https://domedgleysound.com/. Links at Filterstories.org.

A huge thanks goes to Raymond Detweiler for coming forward with this story. I also want to thank Sean Lucas, Ash Unicomb and Charlie Gundlach of Color Coffee Roasters. If you’re in the mountains in Colorado, check out Color Roaster’s beautiful space and their delicious coffee in Eagle.

Editorial feedback was provided by Ngofeen Mputubwele and Nate Sawatzky.

I produced and edited this episode and wrote and performed the piano music. Are you on Instagram? Follow Filter Stories on Instagram @filterstoriespodcast and visit filterstories.org to sign up to the newsletter. Every newsletter contains recommendations to more story podcasts that I personally love and have been huge influences for Filter Stories. So, if you are looking for more great podcasts to listen to between now and 2019 subscribe to the newsletter.

Until next time.

[Musical outro]